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< link >Oh Dave! < /link >

I started this a long time ago but left it unfinished when the tide of events pulled me away...

Fair Weather Faggots.
I got a call recently from my Ex Dave who is the cats meow. He needed a little help with choosing a new computer. I gave him my recommendations and we made plans to get together this weekend. It got me to thinking about the history we have... It’s a very odd trip.

Shortly after I broke up with Randy and moved in with Patrick I met Dave. He had hooked up with Patrick on AOL, but when he arrived at our house they found out they weren’t compatible. Two jars do no a sealed container make. So they both jumped on computers and chatted away into the night.

When I wandered into the office, Patrick was engrossed in a chat conversation. Dave however was more interested in face to face conversation. We ended up walking to the Castro for some reason, I can’t remember for the life of me. We had such a nice conversation and hit it off so well we started dating. After Patrick moved out, he did everything he could to break us up. I still have no idea why. I was just getting back into the dating scene and still didn’t know what I wanted at all. Eventually Dave and I went our separate ways but we always remained friends.

He would call me and tell me about his “leather boys from hell” or getting kicked out of a club for being a bitch to Liza Minnelli, I can’t even remember all the crap he said to her... He was a mess. Eventually he called me to tell me he had met someone that made him very happy but nobody approved. Approved! Since when did he need approval to date someone.
“Well Darling”, he said,” I’m dating a woman, and I think I’m in love.”
“Wow” I said, “didn’t see that one coming.” followed by a couple of not too mean jokes. Mostly at the expense of the “leather boys from hell.” poor boys turned the gayest man in the bay area straight!

It didn’t take long for me to realize that he had already heard all this ad nauseum. Turns out almost all of his friends had abandoned him once they heard. They felt he was turning his back on them. They wrote off his love as just some drama that wouldn’t last and they didn’t have time for someone like him anymore. I was horrified. I admit the first time I witnessed a relationship like this it took me a while to understand it but I never wrote anyone off because they said they loved someone.

One of my coworkers was a sexy gay man who was married to a lesbian they even had a kid together. He would flirt with me and gay it up, but he always went home to his wife and he never strayed into the land of boys as far as I know. It took me quite a while and lots of questions before I understood that he fell in love with the person not the parts she had.

But I couldn’t believe all his other friends who were so protective of him had abandoned him so easily and quickly over something so insignificant. I guess it truly goes to show the quality of his friends. I spent many night on the phone with Dave, the nonjudgmental ear for his relationship. I was excited to hear they were going to have a baby. Dave seemed happier than I have ever witnessed. It wasn’t long however before I got another call that was from the opposite end of the spectrum.

She had a miscarriage and was so traumatized by it she wasn’t leaving the house, she stopped trying, she stopped loving and she stopped living. He tried to help her through the pain and upset, she resisted, she only wanted to wallow. Wallowing is unbecoming of an adult after almost a year. She refused therapy, she refused to leave the house, she refused everything except pity and sympathy.

Eventually after over a year of living and taking care of a person who had stopped living, Dave separated from her, hoping she would snap out of it if there was no one to take care of her. But she didn’t, she just found others to enable her. Dave reluctantly broke up with her. I reassured Dave that he had made the right decision, He had tried so hard for so long and she was refusing everything. As far as I was concerned she stopped living the day her unborn child died and has had no desire to be revived. He had spent more time with her in her unloving state than he did her former self.

I’m worried this is coming together in an way I was not intending. Double standard, you might not think but I don’t agree. Dave tried hard and for a long time before he moved on while his friends abandoned him from the moment he admitted he was dating a woman. Now I see why I didn’t finish this post it became hard to properly word the severity of the problem without going into a vast amount of information of Dave and his girlfriend’s lives. I guess if they were married or had kids I would see things differently, but she obviously didn’t have enough invested in the relationship to even attend therapy and he didn’t have the power to force her like a fully fledged family member/husband would.

Photographic [Rex the Dog Dubb Mix] - Depeche Mode - Remixes 81-04 (Disc 3)


( 11 comments — Leave a comment )
Nov. 23rd, 2004 04:36 pm (UTC)
the loss of a child (even an unborn child) is probably the most devastating thing that can happen to a relationship. I went through an abortion with a girl I was dating and it was .. it wasn't the absolute reason why our relationship ended, but it was a centerpiece. i still resent it, even though i don't feel that i want kids, because i wasn't involved in the decision to terminate the pregnancy. how selfish of me, you know?

it's awful that his "friends" abandoned him as a group when he found his love on the other side of the fake "fence" that so many gay men draw between "straight" and "gay" life. this is especially obvious in urban gay men, with their safe little gay ghettoes where they can hold hands and love in public without consequence.

the rest of the world isn't like that. i've known many gay men that are resentful and see men that can love on both sides as "undecided" or "liars". it's not an abrogation of self to find love; it's lucky and beautiful to find love at all.

i hope he makes it to what's next for him without becoming jaded. you're a good friend.
Nov. 23rd, 2004 05:24 pm (UTC)
Re: ouch!
I really should be the last person to talk on this subject. I have been very lucky with the losses in my life, I have lost some truly great friends but have yet to lose a family member. I couldn't even begin to imagine the pain of losing a child.

My brother still has guilt over an abortion but I don't know what roll he played in the decision. I believe he had a say in the decision and that probably is one of the reason he feels so guilty. Neither of them were ready to be parents, they were both on so many drugs that he remembers very little about that time of his life, but then there is adoption, on of my favorite cousins is an adopted crack baby and he is amazing. It’s sad that you were left out of the decision, I’m sorry.
Nov. 23rd, 2004 04:42 pm (UTC)
it was harder for me to come out as a gay man who is still attracted to women than it was for me to come out as a gay man in the first place. when i refer to myself as a gay man it is only as a social default. i'm very careful who i tell this because i've gotten some very negative reactions ranging from people saying that i'm just a greedy bastard to people saying that i'm a self-hating faggot. i've never been brave enough to actually have intercourse with a woman but the thought does appeal to me. i think people find this so threatening because it explodes their ideas of sexuality and if a person doesn't fit into their created safe boxes then that person is a unsafe or lying to themselves. sexuality is mercurial and i find it very frustrating when people don't understand that. i like who i like. would i have a longterm sexual relationship with a woman? most definitely since most of the men i meet have never kept my interest past the three month mark and it just so happens that my female friendships last for years. draw your own conclusions...
Nov. 23rd, 2004 05:00 pm (UTC)
For that reason I am very glad I am about as gay as you can get. Women do nothing for me. however I think it would be fun to perform oral sex on a girl but mainly to see how good I would be at it. I have never done anything further than kiss a girl. I think it's sad that so many people put their idea of love in such a small box.
Nov. 24th, 2004 04:03 pm (UTC)
The oral sex thing is interesting, because several gay men have admitted that to me. I wonder why it is that that of all things attacts.
Nov. 23rd, 2004 05:09 pm (UTC)
Agreed. I still find (some) women sexually appealing. I haven't had sex with one since .. like November of last year .. but I haven't had an opportunity. If women treated sex more like men do, I'd be about 50/50 on the attraction issue. As it is, sex and how most women communicate are the factors that determine that I'm more gay than not.

Nov. 23rd, 2004 08:51 pm (UTC)
haha, no, women don't do it for me in any way, shape, or form. maybe that's an advantage for those who have some attractiont to women, besides men.

sadness regarding gay people's attitudes toward a more open sexuality.
Nov. 24th, 2004 09:19 am (UTC)
Pisses me off!
Don't even get me started on "Fair Weather Faggots".



Nov. 24th, 2004 09:22 am (UTC)
I'm going to reinforce what both _kaiser_ and Redarius said. It is sad that his friends left him when he found his love. Love is something that you don't get that much of. I've loved women and men in my life. I found the person that I want to spend the rest of my life with in a man. I'm not that attracted to most women but I have had a few that make me go nuts. So, that is that.

The loss of a child is tough. It can destroy relationships for people that have been committed for years. Couple that with the depression/withdrawal factors and it appears that the relationship was doomed. If the person refuses to help themselves then not much can be done.

You are a good man Monkey for standing by Drew.
Nov. 24th, 2004 09:24 am (UTC)
drew=dave (i don't know why I typed drew...need comment edit function)
Nov. 24th, 2004 04:02 pm (UTC)
A difficult and complex subject, but the conclusions you came to ring very true.

We cannot take responsibility for other people's lives farther than a certain point. We can be there for someone, and try to pull them out of their shell, and try to help, but when we start getting pulled into the hole they don't want to leave, we need to back out.

It may seem uncharitable or wrong, but there is only so much we can do for our fellow humans. If they don't want help, we won't help them. It doesn't matter what the problem is.

As to gay men and women... sexuality is an incredibly complex issue. It is probably governed by multiple genes and influenced by our environment. As such a complex issue, we cannot expect it to work according to a narrow classification.

I have loved four men and one woman in my life. I say I'm gay, because that's the label people understand, but the truth is that I fell in love with different people at different times because of who they were, not what they were. I have met sensationalist questions or disrespect from most of the gay men I've met who've found out that I loved a woman and married her.

Dave was right to try to be with the person he felt he loved, and right to try to help her. ANd I think he was right to walk away when he found he could not. He's lucky to have a friend like you.
( 11 comments — Leave a comment )